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Post by Jaysports on Apr 11, 2012 22:58:55 GMT -5
Ok, lots of Roethe hate out there and lots of Peyton doubters, who would you rather have in dynasty?
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Post by burgandy on Apr 12, 2012 8:20:31 GMT -5
Peyton. Big Ben has actually just hit the 30 mark. If you go by the 3 year rule then I would take peyton by far, use him for 1.5 years and try to move him mid season. But to just answer the question.... Peyton
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Post by gambler on Apr 12, 2012 11:02:48 GMT -5
Guess I'm a guy who doesn't believe in 36yo QBs coming off 4 neck surgeries on a completely new team and offense.
Give me the rapist by a solid margin. I'm not predicting he will have a huge year (not a Haley fan), but I do predict he finishes the year on the field at least.
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Post by burgandy on Apr 12, 2012 12:35:25 GMT -5
Guess I'm a guy who doesn't believe in 36yo QBs coming off 4 neck surgeries on a completely new team and offense. Give me the rapist by a solid margin. I'm not predicting he will have a huge year (not a Haley fan), but I do predict he finishes the year on the field at least. Its a valid argument that Peyton is more durable then Ben. Lets add up games missed over their careers. By my math Ben has missed 14 games and Manning 16. Not 100% on that but, pretty sure. Your argument is valid b/c 36 is lot diff than 30 for sure, but Manning has been compared to #4(won't say his name) and #4 put up MVP numbers at age 40
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Post by burgandy on Apr 12, 2012 12:36:58 GMT -5
If the question was who do you want for the next 4 years, then yeah, I'll take Ben, but the reality is that my roster changes dramatically every year so I take Manning to start this year.
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Post by gambler on Apr 12, 2012 12:43:24 GMT -5
#4 didn't have 4 neck surgeries though. Peyton is literally 1 hit for retirement (at least he wont have to play a Greg Williams D this year). We don't know if Peyton can ever recapture what he had. People are just automatically assuming 1.) he's 100% healthy 2.) he will shake off the rust of not having played football in a year and a half 3.) he will be able to put up similar numbers on a new team with new players and a new offense.
They assume all of those will magically be true. If any of them aren't, it's disaster. I'm personally just not sold on a bunch of what if's and maybe's.
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Post by Smash Hits on Apr 12, 2012 13:00:56 GMT -5
I think Peyton has considered the injury risk and has determined that he is/will be ready to play at a high level. He's got plenty of money and accomplishments so he could have easily decided to call it quits. He wants another SB to be even with Eli. I have both these QBs on my roster and I give Peyton a slight edge as my starter.
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Post by gambler on Apr 12, 2012 13:07:51 GMT -5
Wait....we have 3 ghosts now?
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Post by Smash Hits on Apr 12, 2012 13:09:19 GMT -5
changed it to smash hits...
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Post by burgandy on Apr 12, 2012 14:45:19 GMT -5
I think Peyton has considered the injury risk and has determined that he is/will be ready to play at a high level. He's got plenty of money and accomplishments so he could have easily decided to call it quits. He wants another SB to be even with Eli. I have both these QBs on my roster and I give Peyton a slight edge as my starter. Again, I agree here. Manning and Ben are not even in the same league in terms of talent at the position. I think it IS safe to say that Manning will regain all or most of what he had in Denver. SBs aside, we are talking about the greatest QB EVER here people. There was little debate about this other than Brady. The neck thing is scary, no doubt, but spinal fusion surgury more often the not, leaves the spine and neck stronger than it ever was before. (not a doctor though, just want I've read).
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Post by gambler on Apr 12, 2012 15:54:36 GMT -5
Wooooooh! Slow down there!
He's NOT the greatest QB ever. He's not even top5.
The guy has a losing record in the playoffs, he has less SBs then the guy you claim isn't in the "same league" as him. He owns no memorable NFL passing records. I believe we had a poll up here about best QB ever and I believe he didn't get a single vote. Nothing to distinguish him above the true greats
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Post by Smash Hits on Apr 12, 2012 16:44:42 GMT -5
Peyton just puts up 4000+ and 30+ every year for the duration of his career (except last year). He plays at a high level and should be considered among the greats. Look at his age now and the contract he received - that is an indicator of his status among the greats who have played his position.
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Post by gambler on Apr 12, 2012 17:18:06 GMT -5
Peyton just puts up 4000+ and 30+ every year for the duration of his career (except last year). He plays at a high level and should be considered among the greats. Look at his age now and the contract he received - that is an indicator of his status among the greats who have played his position. Correct, "among" the greats...but we just got told he was the greatest QB ever. FYI your stats are wrong. Manning has thrown for 30+ TDs in under half of his seasons. He's more of a high 20s guy then a 30s guy (you can check the stats). If you want to talk yardage and TDs you have to talk Favre and Marino. If you want to talk SBs you talk Brady, Montana, Elway. Like I said he was a good QB but never the best at anything. He's now 36, coming off 4 surgeries, in a new system, and rusty. People can pick whoever they want in the poll, but to say a Big Ben doesn't belong in the same catagory is a joke. Ben has more SB wins, Has himself thrown over 4k two of the last three years (only fell short due to injury in 3rd year), and is in his prime. That easily puts him in the conversation.
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Post by captainff on Apr 12, 2012 17:25:05 GMT -5
Wooooooh! Slow down there! He's NOT the greatest QB ever. He's not even top5. The guy has a losing record in the playoffs, he has less SBs then the guy you claim isn't in the "same league" as him. He owns no memorable NFL passing records. I believe we had a poll up here about best QB ever and I believe he didn't get a single vote. Nothing to distinguish him above the true greats One QB will get you 30 TDs one will get you 20. One will get you 4000+ yds one will get you 3400. And yes, he is in the top 5 ever. Here's one of 100 top 10 lists of all time that have Manning in the top 5. He happens to be 2 on this list only behind Montana. bleacherreport.com/articles/934038-guess-who-is-1-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time#/articles/934038-guess-who-is-1-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/page/11 The only reason he isn't in the conversation at this moment is b/c he was hurt last year. Never seen Ben get anywhere near a best ever poll/list. And never will. The only reason we are having this debate is b/c Manning is old. You must think Manning is completely finished b/c even a surgically repaired Manning is better than Big Ben IMO
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Post by captainff on Apr 12, 2012 17:27:10 GMT -5
I will be happy to list 10 more links showing Manning as a top 5 if not #1 overall QB off all time and nowhere on the list will be Ben
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